Is Marvin abusive? Short answer: yes. Long answer: You've come to the right place.
Let's get this out of the way, this blog, as all of my blog posts are, is 100% my opinion. Unless stated directly that it is fact, this is all what's going on in my mind. Thoughts from a fangirl, if you will.
Also I have to use Spotify to link the songs, because the entire 2016 revival cast album is not on YouTube and I know the revival album better than the original albums.
Also this post is going to be long because I'm actually going through actual lines from the musical. I am going to try to sprinkle some photos into this post.
Listen to "Marvin Hits Trina" on Spotify.
Let's start with the most obvious: Marvin hits Trina after learning that she's going to marry Mendel. Where can you find this scene? In "Marvin Hits Trina". It's all there in black and white. And I doubt that wasn't the first time. Because it's not like he's going to get bent out of shape over his ex-wife moving on with his therapist and hit her for the first time ever.
In this same song, Whizzer sings "he has lost his mind/Marvin can be so uncouth/Marvin can be so unkind". This doesn't sound like your normal oh he's just mean. Whizzer could also possibly have been abused by Marvin when they were still together. Obviously this takes place in act I after Whizzer and Marvin break up in "The Chess Game".
After Whizzer's line, Trina goes "Mendel plans to rub my back/Mendel's not a maniac". That shouldn't sit well with anyone. "Mendel's not a maniac". That means that Marvin went off quite a lot when they were married and maybe when they weren't.
Marvin sings "Jesus, Trina, how I despise your need for stupid conversation". I don't know if you would categorize that as abuse, but Marvin is obviously just a bad excuse for a human being at this point. - Points towards why it's easy to hate him.
Now this is important. Trina AND Whizzer both sing "We had fights and games/Marvin called us funny names/Marvin always played the clown". Even if you don't agree that Marvin was abusive, we all know that he was a bully. To everyone and anyone.
Mendel adds "Marvin acts like he's untrained/Marvin, I am so ashamed" which, honestly, makes me want to laugh because I can't help but think that Mendel is comparing Marvin to a puppy.
Trina and Whizzer sing together again the lines "And he's sweet/And he's mean" which strikes me because I think of when some people try to give excuses for their abusers. It's sad.
I would analyze the lyrics of "I Never Wanted to Love You" but that song hurts me too much and I don't want this post to get too long. But here it is if you want to give it a listen to understand why that's a can of worms I do not wish to open: listen to "I Never Wanted to Love You" on Spotify
Listen to "Please Come to Our House/Jason's Therapy" on Spotify.
Another time we get a hint of Marvin being abusive is in "Jason's Therapy" when Jason tells Mendel "my father's snide". The definition of "snide" is "derogatory or mocking in an indirect way". Sure this isn't physical abuse but it can be considered mental and emotional abuse. It isn't specified if Marvin is snide towards Jason or Trina. I believe that Jason is witnessing Marvin's abuse towards Trina and Jason is only really experiencing
Listen to "Father to Son" on Spotify.
"Father to Son" is a whole nother animal of emotions. I don't think I'm going to get too into the lyrics of this song because I feel like this post is long enough already. But overall it's Marvin apologizing to his son for being a poor excuse for a dad. Which I respect. Especially after what happened before this. I assume that this is all in one swoop of Marvin hits Trina, immediately apologizes and then apologizes to Jason. And let's not forget that by the staging of the revival, it is possible that Jason witnessed Marvin hit Trina, but if Marvin is abusive, it's probably nothing new.
I know Jason is a fictional character but my heart hurts for the kid. He didn't deserve any of what happened in act I.
Obviously in act II, Marvin becomes a more decent person. He sees his son on the weekends, as explained in "Falsettoland/About Time" and everything seems like it's going better. Mendel and Trina seem happy and we meet the lesbians from next door (the best part of the whole show, if you ask me).
Whizzer and Marvin get back together and Marvin is happy. But it's short lived as (SPOILER) Whizzer later is diagnosed and dies of complications with AIDS.
And yes I am typing this through tears while listening to "Seventeen" from Heathers the musical on repeat.
But yes, I strongly believe that Marvin was abusive towards Trina and Whizzer. I don't think he was directly abusive to Jason, personally, but I think he unintentionally neglected Jason.
There's something about Jason and Marvin's relationship that bothers me. Marvin calls Jason "kid" more than his name. Has anyone else noticed that? Am I wrong? I feel like it's a constant reminder for himself that Jason is his kid that he has to take care of.
Moving on to part 2 of this blog!
Why is it so easy to hate Marvin? Well if you support the theory that he is really abusive towards Trina and Whizzer that's pretty much the main reason. Honestly, in my opinion, the show could have ended after "Father to Son" and everyone's life would have been better without Marvin at that time in his life, because he really was unpleasant.
Other than Marvin being abusive to his (ex)wife and later partner, he doesn't seem to be a decent father to Jason. Sure he thinks he tried his best, but it still wasn't good enough, sorry.
I would like to point out that I HATED Christian Borle's portrayal of Marvin in the revival version, but for the Michael Rupert portrayal in the original Broadway cast, I pitied Marvin. It's a different take on the characters.
And I may be the only one who can say I a hate/love relationship with Marvin, but it leans more towards HATE. I just think that the way the character is written- his personality and all- it's repulsive and easy to hate in act I, but you almost fall in love with him in act II because he is trying to be better for the people he loves. He wants to be better for his tight-knit family.
Those are my thoughts. Let me know what you think. Do you support the "theory" that Marvin was abusive to Trina and Whizzer in their relationships? Do you hate, or strongly despise Marvin? And do you think that he was easy to hate him?
I apologize that this was so long. More post to come in the near future! I'm going to try to write as often as I can!
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| "I love my tight-knit family. I love the way they cook linguine." |
Also I have to use Spotify to link the songs, because the entire 2016 revival cast album is not on YouTube and I know the revival album better than the original albums.
Also this post is going to be long because I'm actually going through actual lines from the musical. I am going to try to sprinkle some photos into this post.
 |
| "Lovers come and lovers go." |
Listen to "Marvin Hits Trina" on Spotify.
Let's start with the most obvious: Marvin hits Trina after learning that she's going to marry Mendel. Where can you find this scene? In "Marvin Hits Trina". It's all there in black and white. And I doubt that wasn't the first time. Because it's not like he's going to get bent out of shape over his ex-wife moving on with his therapist and hit her for the first time ever.
In this same song, Whizzer sings "he has lost his mind/Marvin can be so uncouth/Marvin can be so unkind". This doesn't sound like your normal oh he's just mean. Whizzer could also possibly have been abused by Marvin when they were still together. Obviously this takes place in act I after Whizzer and Marvin break up in "The Chess Game".
After Whizzer's line, Trina goes "Mendel plans to rub my back/Mendel's not a maniac". That shouldn't sit well with anyone. "Mendel's not a maniac". That means that Marvin went off quite a lot when they were married and maybe when they weren't.
Marvin sings "Jesus, Trina, how I despise your need for stupid conversation". I don't know if you would categorize that as abuse, but Marvin is obviously just a bad excuse for a human being at this point. - Points towards why it's easy to hate him.
Now this is important. Trina AND Whizzer both sing "We had fights and games/Marvin called us funny names/Marvin always played the clown". Even if you don't agree that Marvin was abusive, we all know that he was a bully. To everyone and anyone.
Mendel adds "Marvin acts like he's untrained/Marvin, I am so ashamed" which, honestly, makes me want to laugh because I can't help but think that Mendel is comparing Marvin to a puppy.
Trina and Whizzer sing together again the lines "And he's sweet/And he's mean" which strikes me because I think of when some people try to give excuses for their abusers. It's sad.
I would analyze the lyrics of "I Never Wanted to Love You" but that song hurts me too much and I don't want this post to get too long. But here it is if you want to give it a listen to understand why that's a can of worms I do not wish to open: listen to "I Never Wanted to Love You" on Spotify
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| "Please see a psychiatrist." |
Another time we get a hint of Marvin being abusive is in "Jason's Therapy" when Jason tells Mendel "my father's snide". The definition of "snide" is "derogatory or mocking in an indirect way". Sure this isn't physical abuse but it can be considered mental and emotional abuse. It isn't specified if Marvin is snide towards Jason or Trina. I believe that Jason is witnessing Marvin's abuse towards Trina and Jason is only really experiencing
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| This is my phone's home screen and it keeps me from crying about Falsettos 24/7 |
"Father to Son" is a whole nother animal of emotions. I don't think I'm going to get too into the lyrics of this song because I feel like this post is long enough already. But overall it's Marvin apologizing to his son for being a poor excuse for a dad. Which I respect. Especially after what happened before this. I assume that this is all in one swoop of Marvin hits Trina, immediately apologizes and then apologizes to Jason. And let's not forget that by the staging of the revival, it is possible that Jason witnessed Marvin hit Trina, but if Marvin is abusive, it's probably nothing new.
I know Jason is a fictional character but my heart hurts for the kid. He didn't deserve any of what happened in act I.
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| Sorry for the broken hearts this causes. |
Whizzer and Marvin get back together and Marvin is happy. But it's short lived as (SPOILER) Whizzer later is diagnosed and dies of complications with AIDS.
And yes I am typing this through tears while listening to "Seventeen" from Heathers the musical on repeat.
But yes, I strongly believe that Marvin was abusive towards Trina and Whizzer. I don't think he was directly abusive to Jason, personally, but I think he unintentionally neglected Jason.
There's something about Jason and Marvin's relationship that bothers me. Marvin calls Jason "kid" more than his name. Has anyone else noticed that? Am I wrong? I feel like it's a constant reminder for himself that Jason is his kid that he has to take care of.
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| For some reason when I opened this "All American Prophet" from Book of Mormon started playing in my head. |
Why is it so easy to hate Marvin? Well if you support the theory that he is really abusive towards Trina and Whizzer that's pretty much the main reason. Honestly, in my opinion, the show could have ended after "Father to Son" and everyone's life would have been better without Marvin at that time in his life, because he really was unpleasant.
Other than Marvin being abusive to his (ex)wife and later partner, he doesn't seem to be a decent father to Jason. Sure he thinks he tried his best, but it still wasn't good enough, sorry.
I would like to point out that I HATED Christian Borle's portrayal of Marvin in the revival version, but for the Michael Rupert portrayal in the original Broadway cast, I pitied Marvin. It's a different take on the characters.
And I may be the only one who can say I a hate/love relationship with Marvin, but it leans more towards HATE. I just think that the way the character is written- his personality and all- it's repulsive and easy to hate in act I, but you almost fall in love with him in act II because he is trying to be better for the people he loves. He wants to be better for his tight-knit family.
Those are my thoughts. Let me know what you think. Do you support the "theory" that Marvin was abusive to Trina and Whizzer in their relationships? Do you hate, or strongly despise Marvin? And do you think that he was easy to hate him?
I apologize that this was so long. More post to come in the near future! I'm going to try to write as often as I can!
Absolutely. All of this. Borle's interpretation of the role left me confused and conflicted on how I feel about Marvin's characterization, but this post outlined exactly my thoughts.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, I support the theory that Jason is abused/neglected throughout nearly the whole production. Along with the obvious witnessed abuse and experienced neglect from Marvin, Jason is also required to grow up too fast, seen as he talks to Mendel about his and his mother's relationship, and constantly being overshadowed by all other members of the family and their relationships/problems even though they constantly make him feel as though there is something wrong with him ("Everyone Tells Jason to see a Psychiatrist"). Sure, it can be argued that Trina, Marvin, and Mendel mean well, but to Jason, their "loving" gestures are anything but. Going by that theory, Whizzer is really the only member of the cast (excluding the lesbians from next door solely because I can't recall any major moments Jason and the lesbians interact with each other) that pays Jason any loving attention. I think that's why Jason has such a strong and seemingly strange/out of place relationship with Whizzer (The Baseball Game).
Sorry for my crazy long comment! I have a lot of feelings on this subject and got a little off topic. Regardless, love the post!
THANK YOU! I appreciate you're comment (you're the first on this blog!) and I am glad you like this post!
DeleteMarvin is a mess of a human and he doesn't want to admit that he needs help. That is his problem.
That was an interesting read. I've never seen the falsettos but listened to both recordings, as well. As In Trousers. I came across this blog as I was thinking about it and I think maybe Marvin is a narcissist.
DeleteDefinitely! He is totally full of himself in Act 1. He becomes a bit better in Act 2.
DeleteMay I ask why you hate Borle's portrayal of Marvin? Thanks
ReplyDeleteThank you for your comment! I didn't mean hate like he did a bad job. I think Borle did a wonderful job as Marvin. I meant that I hated his version of Marvin. As in I could tolerate Michael Rupert's Marvin if I met him in real life, but I would punch Borle's Marvin without a second thought. Overall, I think Borle did an amazing job portraying this character for how the musical sets the character up.
DeleteTo me Borle's Marvin was much more ruthless and more of an asshole than Rupert's Marvin. I find Rupert's Marvin more pathetic.
This is not me talking about the actors themselves. Just the acting choices and direction they took with the character. I'm not sure if this clear up anything, but I hope it does. I am actually a HUGE Christian Borle fan.
Also sorry that this reply is so late. I check my comments once every few months.